tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post7467015586019297744..comments2024-03-27T00:32:29.877-07:00Comments on Photos and Stuff: Crit: Laura Saunders, Tracing Gila RIveramolitorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-65699072883061012032017-05-21T08:20:10.172-07:002017-05-21T08:20:10.172-07:00Thank you!Thank you!amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-61128038608572665602017-05-21T06:40:15.590-07:002017-05-21T06:40:15.590-07:00Will do.Will do.Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-69561103468327570632017-05-20T09:36:24.037-07:002017-05-20T09:36:24.037-07:00Having heard too much unmitigated nonsense I gener...Having heard too much unmitigated nonsense I generally concur. For the rest I'll write you an email. :-)Niglihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06133186764538955375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-57710556285981527282017-05-20T08:37:37.068-07:002017-05-20T08:37:37.068-07:00Thank you for your perspective!
(I hope you'r...Thank you for your perspective!<br /><br />(I hope you're not finding my remarks about NGOs too offensive, as a full disclosure, I still contribute to a couple of global aid organizations, despite my misgivings, so perhaps that will give a less unpalatable picture of my ideas)amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-21282577680377031042017-05-20T06:43:19.555-07:002017-05-20T06:43:19.555-07:00Hi all,
A few random comments to make: I'll g...Hi all,<br /><br />A few random comments to make: I'll give my perspective as a NZer, New Yorker, NYT, Wash Post, Politico, Mother Jones, The Stranger and Economist reader, former NGO fundraiser, winemaker and now occasional craft brewer. Incidentally, I was detained in New York in 2002 (not arrested) for not having ID and taking photographs near bridges and tunnels. That was scary, as I knew I had no legal recourse whatsoever. <br /><br />I find the work pretty clear in it's intent, even as an outsider. Having said that, as a native english speaker, however long abroad, I'm pretty familiar with American culture in a broad sense. <br /><br />Re the comment regarding Auschwitz, I haven't been there, but I did visit Dachau. The photos I took there were roundly criticised by my (lovely German leftie) wife as looking 'too pretty' - they were taken midsummer on a beautiful day. I expect there were beautiful midsummer days even during the Holocaust. I can even imagine that some people felt 'happy'-ish there on those summer days, however horrible that thought might be. (If I recall, Andrew, you posted something along these lines this a while ago?) I'll plead "Ivan Denisovich" on that one. <br /><br />Niglihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06133186764538955375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-50755758079802153682017-05-18T14:14:16.691-07:002017-05-18T14:14:16.691-07:00And just for reference, Abhishek, I'm going to...And just for reference, Abhishek, I'm going to ask you to rein in your remarks regarding fellow readers. Possible you mean it in jest, but if soe remember that it's the internet and jokes don't read well.<br /><br />If you don't mean it as a joke, please try to keep it bottled up. We cannot really judge one another on the basis of a few words of comments here and there anyways.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-55542653910968948522017-05-16T11:42:47.697-07:002017-05-16T11:42:47.697-07:00And I've got the adjective it's lacking: f...And I've got the adjective it's lacking: forceful.Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-30740557926924113362017-05-16T11:38:27.736-07:002017-05-16T11:38:27.736-07:00Ah ha, ok now I understand. But I get the feeling ...Ah ha, ok now I understand. But I get the feeling that there just isn't enough acid in this photo essay. I mean, why aren't there any photos of trump, or if she doesn't like photos of people, more red hats and such?<br /><br />Moving one's lips is useless without the force of one's lungs, yknow?Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-74311307399337437052017-05-16T11:33:04.019-07:002017-05-16T11:33:04.019-07:00Well, hmm. MUCH milder, I expect, but the general ...Well, hmm. MUCH milder, I expect, but the general idea is correct, I think.<br /><br />At least, that's an important part of it, right? <br />Imagine a German looking at a photoessay that has some Auschwitz material, and then used that to comment on something contemporary that the artist wanted to make some parallel with.<br /><br />If I stuck up three iconic photos of concentration camps, and then a picture of Angela Merkel, well, I'd be jolly well making a statement, right? But you didn't recognize any of it, it's be "building, building, fence, old lady" huh?<br /><br />Does that make sense? You'd have to be pretty ballsy to compare Auschwitz with something, but it's a much smaller leap to compare the Japanese Internment to something, the latter was shameful but not nearly as shameful.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-43058879818136151462017-05-16T11:26:34.394-07:002017-05-16T11:26:34.394-07:00OH NOW I GET IT. For you, looking at those picture...OH NOW I GET IT. For you, looking at those pictures is like a milder version of a German looking at pictures of Auschwitz! Is it? Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-30093628968815455762017-05-16T11:14:28.319-07:002017-05-16T11:14:28.319-07:00That is the question foremost in my mind. How woul...That is the question foremost in my mind. How would a Trump voter read the essay?<br /><br />Would it make sense, or just be gibberish?<br /><br />If it made sense, the reaction might well be "SO WHAT? LOCK 'EM ALL UP AGAIN!" which I disagree with, but at least Saunder's work would be "reading". If it was just pictures of desert and buildings and Japanese people having fun, well, that would be super interesting.<br /><br />I'd have to find me a Trump voter someplace ;)<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-29120147412109254352017-05-16T11:08:49.415-07:002017-05-16T11:08:49.415-07:00I'm curious though. Is it an American story ac...I'm curious though. Is it an American story accessible to most Americans, or just to a small, small elite? Because it seems a bit redundant in that case.<br /><br />Show it to some blue collar fellow na, I'd be interested in what he thinks of it.<br /><br />Oh yeah, I hope irritating British guy comes along.Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-79344718249527216192017-05-16T11:02:12.610-07:002017-05-16T11:02:12.610-07:00Not sure it's the artist's fault here, rea...Not sure it's the artist's fault here, really.<br /><br />The Minamata work is pretty universally accessible, being centered on the human body. We've all got one of those.<br /><br />Saunder's work is an very American story, and I'm not sure it can even BE told (as Art, rather than, say, a book) in a way that would really be accessible outside the USA. I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be working for you, and it works fine for me.<br /><br />I am hoping some of our British, Australian, or African readers (or others, but I know there's at least one of each of those!) will chime in at some point.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-49026228819170090762017-05-16T10:30:19.324-07:002017-05-16T10:30:19.324-07:00I think your looking for an adjective that would d...I think your looking for an adjective that would describe Eugene Smith's Minamata pictures. Significant? Important? Meaningful?<br /><br />Having any place in the world outside the weird artist makes art for artists vortex that so much of today's stuff finds itself in?Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-73834274674589482722017-05-16T10:26:05.453-07:002017-05-16T10:26:05.453-07:00Yes, that is possible, and it speaks to me doing a...Yes, that is possible, and it speaks to me doing a lousy job in this criticism. I thought it was more broadly accessible, it felt a lot more rich and meaningful than Bush's satellite photos, but I'm no longer sure that's the case.<br /><br />It's structurally a lot more interesting, and it takes a strong position, but in the end it might not be any... I don't know if *better* is really the right word, but something.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-86916361205624696572017-05-16T10:19:44.392-07:002017-05-16T10:19:44.392-07:00Literally preaching to the choir then, neh?
What&...Literally preaching to the choir then, neh?<br /><br />What's the point?Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-46358025197736669362017-05-16T07:03:44.066-07:002017-05-16T07:03:44.066-07:00This is another case where she's relying on cu...This is another case where she's relying on culture to unlock it. She literally just has to say "private prison" to me, and it unlocks a dozen articles, and thousands of words of writing on the subject. A flood of information and opinion pops up in my head just hearing that phrase, just seeing a picture of a prison with a corporate brand name on it.<br /><br />While you can, obvious, grasp the theory that private prisons are bad idea, you haven't lived with decades of opinion pieces, articles, advertisements, politics, on the subject, so you don't get that instant flood of context.<br /><br />This is *so* interesting!<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-41992805982924061292017-05-16T07:01:03.964-07:002017-05-16T07:01:03.964-07:00This is so interesting!
To me she doesn't hav...This is so interesting!<br /><br />To me she doesn't have to, because I literally grew up with this. She *could* tell that story too, but that's a different essay. She's relying, and I totally did not see this, on her audience basically being steeped in the history of the Japanese Internment, so she basically just has to mention it, and it unlocks a whole mass of material in my mind.<br /><br />But of course it doesn't translate much farther than that. It's possible that there are plenty of people in the USA, let's say the average Trump voter (no offense intended) who also don't have the right background.<br /><br />I probably read a lot of New Yorker articles on this, and not everyone reads the New Yorker (the official magazine of the Liberal Elite!)<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-16523411049186999552017-05-15T21:52:26.207-07:002017-05-15T21:52:26.207-07:00And you are, obviously, correct. Keeping profit ou...And you are, obviously, correct. Keeping profit out of things like education or incarceration is the way things should be.<br /><br />But I don't see that here. I literally only see a fairly nice looking building and a cozy shop.Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-86502656583352010452017-05-15T21:50:45.833-07:002017-05-15T21:50:45.833-07:00See now that is a point worth considering...
So w...See now that is a point worth considering...<br /><br />So why aren't there pictures that relate to that instead? I mean, it sounds difficult, but SURELY it'd have more to do with the topic at hand than a few old guys playing go.Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-7223478096887622912017-05-15T21:48:50.893-07:002017-05-15T21:48:50.893-07:00And this you see in the photoessay where exactly?And this you see in the photoessay where exactly?Abhishek Cherathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13831477526772025601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-3241089182191046812017-05-15T15:08:09.916-07:002017-05-15T15:08:09.916-07:00Yeah, some people think that the Japanese Internme...Yeah, some people think that the Japanese Internment was a scan to steal their stuff. And, it probably was.<br /><br />There are always as many different motivations for these things as there are people making the decisions, and when the government is involved, there are loads of people making the decisions. So, pretty much any theory is "true" in at least some small, local, sense.<br /><br />Apparently they lost a lot of stuff, and some white folks acquired a lot of stuff. So.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-35309890166632842012017-05-15T15:03:00.959-07:002017-05-15T15:03:00.959-07:00... and yet, over in Hawai'i, with its large J...... and yet, over in Hawai'i, with its large Japanese population and closest proximity to Japan, there were very few internments during WWII. Another story worth looking at.erickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01409165571476557979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-33478254296029845832017-05-15T14:18:03.683-07:002017-05-15T14:18:03.683-07:00As I see it, her point is that the USA has a long ...As I see it, her point is that the USA has a long history of incarcerating people for not particularly good reasons, of shoving immigrants into prisons and internment camps.<br /><br />Again, I think this resonates more clearly for people here in the USA, where we're pretty aware of the Japanese Internment during WWII. It was one of those ideas that definitely seemed like a good idea at the time. Nobody, as far as I know, has made any serious effort to determine how many potential spies/collaborators got locked up, but probably some.<br /><br />Whether it was "worth it" is unknowable, but there's no denying that the Japanese got screwed in the whole deal. Even if half of them were spies, there should have been a lot more effort made to protect their assets and give them a fair shake. A lot of them came out after the war with a whole lot less than they went in with, for a variety of reasons.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-16627118492392447242017-05-15T14:14:42.776-07:002017-05-15T14:14:42.776-07:00Yeah, you should be against private prisons. As so...Yeah, you should be against private prisons. As soon as someone's making money putting people into prisons, more people are going to get put in to prisons.<br /><br />Money has a corrupting effect, which is one of the reasons you want governments doing certain things, no matter how incompetently the government does it.<br /><br />It goes like this:<br /><br />Private company gets a contract to run prisons.<br />Company makes a lot of money.<br />Company diverts some of that profit to lobby for tougher laws.<br />More people get sent to prison.<br /><br />This is one of the many reasons the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world.<br /><br />So, there's some interesting cultural content here for us! A "branded" prison unlocks a whole mass of crap when I see it, but not for you.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.com