tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post8155849396530214759..comments2024-03-27T00:32:29.877-07:00Comments on Photos and Stuff: Trame and Not-Trameamolitorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-57657649286676495462016-12-10T14:43:28.051-08:002016-12-10T14:43:28.051-08:00Okay so...Thomas and Andrew
If I can restate this:...Okay so...Thomas and Andrew<br />If I can restate this:<br />a thing pretty to me but meaningless, is not beauty that I'm perceiving but simply a clichéd pretension of beauty, e.g. it is a picture of a barren tree on a hill against a glorious cloud filled sky in golden light.<br /><br />On the other hand, the same pretty thing is meaningful to you and is therefore what; e.g the tree is reminiscent of a gallows tree, and you have had acquaintance with suicide; emotional certainly, but beautiful?<br /><br />It seems to me that meaning is not exclusive to beauty. A thing without meaning is neither beautiful nor ugly.<br /><br />The picture is absent of rope or noose or victim; but we have trame. <br />Nick Van Zantenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04326481071425358282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-8557805670138934402016-12-08T01:59:00.862-08:002016-12-08T01:59:00.862-08:00I agree with you in your comment about beauty abov...I agree with you in your comment about beauty above. However, now we have 'beauty', 'meaning' and 'trame' to worry about, all of them jelly-like concepts open to highly personalised quasi-definitions. <br /><br />I also think there is a danger of circularity in statements like "If something is beautiful, then it HAS to have meaning".erickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01409165571476557979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-52953526050059490132016-12-07T15:43:21.647-08:002016-12-07T15:43:21.647-08:00That's pretty much how I feel. I'm sure th...That's pretty much how I feel. I'm sure there is a philosophy of aesthetics that supports our conception of beauty (I'm pretty sure there's a philosophy of aesthetics that supports pretty much anything you can imagine?)<br /><br />I think the point is that, just because Beauty and Trame (let's say) are tied together in such a way that neither exists without the other, one can't just discard one. I may be guilty of discarding Beauty because I don't think it can really exist in a useful way without Trame.<br /><br />Maybe.<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-62341223174095150972016-12-07T13:59:12.827-08:002016-12-07T13:59:12.827-08:00It's that in my opinion, there is no such thin...It's that in my opinion, there is no such thing as "beauty abstracted away from meaning". If something is pleasing to look at, but devoid of meaning, then it's a cliché. On the other hand, if something is truly beautiful (in a strict sense of the word), then it HAS to have meaning. Perception of this kind of beauty is something that reveals an order, a sense that something is "right" and true within the chaos and transience of our existence.<br /><br />Best, ThomasThomas Rinkhttp://www.picturesfromthezone.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-78771093959050828322016-12-07T12:51:11.492-08:002016-12-07T12:51:11.492-08:00yes, please, unpack a bit, Thomas… it will be inte...yes, please, unpack a bit, Thomas… it will be interesting grist for my mill, neh.<br /><br />and fair warning, in addition to throwing a tamalada this winter-season, as my christmas present to myself over the next couple of weeks I am about to sit down and re-read Everything about aesthetics and trame and all the rest, and then Write Down All my Thoughts…<br /><br />(AND if someone could clarify how I can find the Peta-peoples' words for trame as well, preferably by some sort of googling or even more awesome, a link… that would be wonderful. I sniffed around, but my browser is older and cranky about navigating at all on Peta-thing… just if possible)stone sealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08285111419079958362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-39064566512760079182016-12-07T12:24:58.273-08:002016-12-07T12:24:58.273-08:00I meant that the kind of beauty that you mentioned...I meant that the kind of beauty that you mentioned in your post is what is commonly called a cliché. It is what we mostly dismiss or ridicule - for a good reason. A definition of beauty that I agree with is that in order for something to be perceived as beautiful, there has to be a dialog of sorts between the Beautiful and its beholder, it has to "speak" to him (or her). Probably that's a "trame" of sorts?<br /><br />Best, ThomasThomas Rinkhttp://www.picturesfromthezone.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-59065894359839167932016-12-07T12:05:59.370-08:002016-12-07T12:05:59.370-08:00I'm not sure I grasp your point. Aesthetics is...I'm not sure I grasp your point. Aesthetics is, of course, big, wide, and pretty variable. I'm not trying to discuss that, nor am I particularly interested in Aesthetics with a big A at the moment.<br /><br />I'm just trying to grasp what the accusation that "trame" leaves aesthetics out of consideration might reasonably mean, and what I think of that. I don't think the accusation meant to include all of the philosophy of beauty, but probably meant something more specific.<br /><br />Perhaps he'll weigh in himself!<br />amolitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743439184763617516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-654754338632526091.post-4778674274471362642016-12-07T11:42:45.135-08:002016-12-07T11:42:45.135-08:00"I live in an era where pure beauty, abstract..."I live in an era where pure beauty, abstracted away from meaning, is common as sand." - Sorry, but that's not "beauty" in the sense of aesthetics (a philosophical discipline, which deals with art and the concept of "beauty"). There's much more behind the concept of the Beautiful.<br /><br />Best, ThomasThomas Rinkhttp://www.picturesfromthezone.com/noreply@blogger.com